#141 – Want to Optimize Your Amazon Listings? This Brother and Sister Team have the Answers

It’s a simple eCommerce fact that you can have the most amazing Amazon product ever, but if no one knows about it, your products are just going to sit on the shelves. We understand that it’s crucial to optimize our Amazon listings. What we might not be aware of, is just how important it truly is.

Today on the Serious Sellers Podcast, Helium 10’s Director of Training and Customer Success, Bradley Sutton welcomes two eCommerce siblings that are pros at getting your Amazon listings optimized. Together, Lailama and Saddam run a company that specializes in professional Amazon listing optimization and work with their clients on everything from their copy to the Amazon-specific photography.

Who doesn’t want more eyes focused on their Amazon product?

In episode 141 of the Serious Sellers Podcast, Bradley, Lailama and Saddam discuss:

• 01:20 – The Siblings’ Origin Story
• 03:30 – Numbers Run in the Family
• 05:50 – “Accounting is the Anatomy of Business”
• 08:00 – Lailama Loved Shopping and that Helped Source Products
• 11:00 – Why Did They Pivot and Become Consultants?
• 14:00 – Product Optimization 101
• 15:15 – Big Amazon Image Mistakes
• 16:25 – Getting Hooked Above the Fold
• 18:00 – Creating “Stuffed” Titles that Flow  
• 20:30 – Infographics are a Must
• 23:20 – Amazon Title Tactics
• 26:00 – How Important is Video?
• 28:30 – Optimizing Your Bullet Points
• 30:40 – Taking Advantage of Image Meta Data 
• 35:40 – Saddam’s 30 Second Tip
• 36:28 – Lailama’s 30 Second Tip
• 37:00 – How to Reach Out to Lailama and Saddam

Enjoy this episode? Be sure to check out our previous episodes for even more content to propel you to Amazon FBA Seller success! And don’t forget to “Like” our Facebook page and subscribe to the podcast on iTunes, Google Play or wherever you listen to our podcast.

Want to absolutely start crushing it on Amazon? Here are few carefully curated resources to get you started:

• Freedom Ticket: Taught by Amazon thought leader Kevin King, get A-Z Amazon strategies and techniques for establishing and solidifying your business.
• Ultimate Resource Guide: Discover the best tools and services to help you dominate on Amazon.
• Helium 10: 20+ software tools to boost your entire sales pipeline from product research to customer communication and Amazon refund automation. Make running a successful Amazon business easier with better data and insights. See what our customers have to say.
• Helium 10 Chrome Extension: Verify your Amazon product idea and validate how lucrative it can be with over a dozen data metrics and profitability estimation. 
• SellerTradmarks.com: Trademarks are vital for protecting your Amazon brand from hijackers, and sellertrademarks.com provides a streamlined process for helping you get one.

Transcript

Bradley Sutton: Here’s a story about a pair of eCommerce siblings who are pros at getting your Amazon listings optimized. They’re going to give us their best tips on everything from copying your listing, to your Amazon photography. How cool is that? Pretty cool, I think

Bradley Sutton: Hello everybody, and welcome to another episode of the Serious Sellers Podcast by Helium 10. I am your host, Bradley Sutton, and this is the show that’s a completely BS-free, unscripted and unrehearsed organic conversation about serious strategies or serious sellers of any level in the eCommerce world. And we’ve got two people on completely other sides of the world to me here. First of all, we’ve got Lailama. Lailama, where are you at right now?

Lailama: I’m in Canada. Alberta.

Bradley Sutton: You’re in Canada. And, your brother from the same mother, not brother from another mother, like we usually say, Saddam, Saddam, where are you at right now?

Saddam: I am in Pakistan at the moment.

Bradley Sutton: Pakistan. All right, so we’ve got an international podcast that we’re doing today. Now, how I like to always start these is, no matter where we end up, kind of in our eCommerce journey, our origin. Maybe we’re in a similar place now, different guests I have, but our origin story is almost always completely different. So you being in Pakistan now, is that where you’re originally from, Saddam or your family’s from?

Saddam: Yeah, so born and raised in Pakistan, and we lived in quite a few different cities in Pakistan and then I moved when I was 17, so pretty early. Moved there for a University in Canada.

Bradley Sutton: To Canada. Okay. It’s not too cold for you? I couldn’t live in Canada. It’s too cold for me.

Saddam: Yeah, it is very cold. Still, I’m not acclimated to the weather, but it’s got better opportunity. So that’s why I like living in Canada.

Bradley Sutton: Cool. Now, are you older than Lailama? Who’s, the older one here?

Saddam: Unfortunately, I’m the eldest. So, obviously all the responsibilities are on my shoulder.

Bradley Sutton: There we go. So, sometimes that’s a good thing. Sometimes it’s a bad thing. People tell me being an only child, you’re spoiled and things like that. But, it’s actually the opposite. People don’t realize that if there was something that went wrong, I have nobody to blame. So, I’m sure when maybe something went wrong in your house, maybe you could tell your parents it was Lailama who did it, or something. But I never had that opportunity in my house. But anyways, speaking of your childhood. Growing up, let’s start with Lailama. What did you envision as far as your professional career? Did you want to be a firefighter, or what did you want to do when you were younger?

Lailama: Well, my dad was in accounting, and I’ve studied accounting and finance. That’s what I majored in. So, I had not thought of being in the e-commerce industry at all. It was a completely different, I saw myself as when I was younger.

Bradley Sutton: So you mean, you were 10 years old and you’re like, I want to be an accountant when I grow up?

Lailama: Well, so when I was 10, not really, but I knew I kind of wanted to do, I had not thought about being in this industry at all. It was more about either teaching or, yeah, I did look up to my dad, so accounting was definitely something I was interested in.

Bradley Sutton: Okay. I feel sorry that your childhood does not sound very exciting if your life goal is to be accountant, but hey, what about you Saddam, did you have some more interesting ambitions when you were younger?

Saddam: Yeah. You’re going to find this funny, but I am a designated accountant by profession. When I was growing up, I wanted to be a corporate lawyer, so very corporate-y environment in our household, I think.

Bradley Sutton: I need to have a talk with your parents. That’s just a very interesting. I’m sure there’s many parents out there who are like, “man, I would love for my kids to wish they were an accountant or a lawyer when they grew up.” But, that’s interesting to have two people have those kinds of ambitions. Now did both of you go to university?

Lailama: Yeah, so I went for accounting and finance. That’s what I did my undergrad in.

Bradley Sutton: Okay. And you, Saddam?

Saddam: Same here for me. I went to university and then I did three years of my designation. Even my professional career is in financial planning and analysis, and it’s very numbers-oriented.

Bradley Sutton: After graduating then, it sounds like you Saddam went into that field directly, like straight away. Did you go into the financial field upon graduating university?

Saddam: That’s correct. Yeah. So I was looking for different opportunities with an accounting firm, but I landed in the industry and fun fact is I landed in supply chain. So I used to work with DHL supply chain, which is the biggest supply chain company in the world. And, right when I ended my job, I was managing $200 million in revenue per annum for different sites. And my focus basically was financial planning analysis. And my academics really was focused on strategic governance.

Bradley Sutton: More exciting things that you’re talking about there. Oh my goodness. But the one part that’s exciting there was managing 200 million. That’s kind of– that would seem like it is actually is– seriously speaking to something exciting to do. So what was it though that had you looking elsewhere or had you looking to sell on Amazon? Cause if somebody’s doing their lifelong dream, what they wanted to do when they were growing up. You usually don’t go looking for other things to do, be it Amazon or be it an entrepreneurial kind of thing to do. So what motivated you to kind of look into other avenues?

Saddam: Yeah, so basically what I like telling people is accounting is pretty much the anatomy of business. So you learn different parts of the body of business. And when I learned that and I was working with quite a lot of startups, and I was managing the budget for them, I just thought, I can create something on my own. And I know how to work it out. I know how to create a brand from there and scale it up. So that was the intent behind looking elsewhere. Now, how I ended up doing Amazon is a complete different story. But, that was the initiation of my entrepreneurial journey.

Bradley Sutton: Okay, cool. What about you, Lailama, upon graduating university, did you also hop into the financial world?

Lailama: That’s correct, yeah, I was in the banking industry. So a lot of investments, mortgages, stuff like that.

Bradley Sutton: And then what about you? Like, was that fulfilling work for you, or did you have an entrepreneurial bug at all?

Lailama: For me, it was more of the artsy side of me. I always was into accounting and stuff like that. But then on the other side, I also liked design and photography. So, photography is what got me into it basically.

Saddam: It was just me initially that I started. I started doing retail arbitrage. It was very good to start with, but it’s a lot of sweat equity. You have to be out in the store hunting for products back and forth. But then I tried doing my own private label and I brought Lailama with me. And yeah, that was pretty much the start– it was 2017 summer is when we started.

Bradley Sutton: What was your first product?

Lailama: I believe it was spice tins, which was a pretty successful launch.

Bradley Sutton: Spice what? I’m sorry.

Lailama: Spice tins, they’re like magnetic spiced tins that you can attach to fridges, and just anywhere on your kitchen counter.

Bradley Sutton: He said that you were kind of like the product finder in those days. So were you the one who found that, Lailama?

Lailama: Yeah. Yeah. That was me.

Bradley Sutton: So, how did you find that? Helium 10 wasn’t around too much in those days. So, did you search using tools, or did you just have this idea that this would be a cool product to sell?

Lailama: Okay, so I really like shopping and I like to look at brands and the design aspect of marketing. So, I’d always be thinking about how one can improve a product. And, I just thought we were in the– we wanted to do kitchen, household items. So I just thought about spice tins and I’m like, Hey, you know, if we were, if we could come up with spice tins that you could refill, and good for the environment, and maybe like attach it to the fridge, that’ll be easy. I was just thinking of ways how it could make life easier for people or at least myself. Then you won’t have to go through closets looking for spices. So, that’s kind of where the idea came from. And I was kind of initially looking for something that was a little different, a bit of a niche market. And then I started using tools, so a bit of Helium 10.

Bradley Sutton: Okay. So then you say it was a successful product, your very first product. What was success to you guys? How many sales were you doing a day or a year, or how did you measure success?

Saddam: Yeah, so the niche was not too big. the top two or three spots, they were doing about 7 – 8K in revenue per month. So, we were able to rank it up in the top five spots for the main keyword, and for us the success was getting that 80- 20 split between organic and advertising sales. So we got it to that point and then we kind of ran into a supply chain issue, but that’s when we decided– that was way after and we had this other venture to take care of, so we liquidated and then move their money into the current business that we have.

Bradley Sutton: Okay. So, I know you’re not selling on Amazon now, but what was at your peak year? How much did you sell for gross sales on Amazon?

Saddam: So unfortunately I wasn’t able to scale it too much. I jumped out of Amazon pretty quickly. I think we were– if I talk about revenue rate, we were definitely the going to close at around 250, 300. But early in the year, we pulled out with 70K in that year, and it was just outside of the first quarter.

Bradley Sutton: Okay. So now, that’s interesting because some people will say, “Oh, I don’t want to deal with consultants who haven’t been in the game and who aren’t huge sellers and stuff like that.” But me, when I was a consultant for Amazon sellers, I had never sold private label on Amazon. I just thought it to myself and always worked for other companies and I had never done my own business before. So you guys actually have way more experience than me. But what made you guys jump out “soon”? You were scaling up the business, but you’re kind of right away– you’re like, “Hey, you know what? I think I want to pivot and be a consultant instead of running my own business.” What was your motivation for that pivot?

Saddam: So it was more from an involvement in the community, meetups or conferences in five, six different cities all around Canada. And when we were doing that, what I realized was there was scarcity of agencies that were the prime companies for these kinds of services. And initially, it was just interest from other sellers who wanted to learn about Amazon from myself and from some other people that we have in that group. And, afterwards to see if they use our own freelances that we use. But unfortunately when you use a lot of freelancers, their way of providing the service is not very standardized. And that’s what I kind of wanted to bring in to the mix as well. Learning from Amazon– what I did with my own products. And I can testify to this is I experimented a lot with my product so I wasn’t chasing success. I was doing a lot of split testing and trying out different things– running that end of the excitement. When we launched our first product, my first thing was to see all the different reports that Amazon can produce. Or generic within a platform. And once I learned that, I looked at the key metrics and I said, “okay, instead of using freelancers, if we have people who can photo a streamlined process and good standard operating procedures, we can excel in this market that is more service oriented.” And the other thing, quite frankly, like I said, having a background of financial planning, I know how much the Amazon business is a cast flow business. You need a lot of working capital. So even if you’re doing $1 million in revenue, there’s a lot of cash flow that’s tied up because of inventory. So I wanted to move to a model where there were bigger margins, and it wasn’t too capital intensive.

Bradley Sutton: Okay. That’s interesting. Now that for the rest of the episode, we’re going to be kind of talking about what I believe is your specialty. One of your specialties is kind of like listing optimization as a whole. From what I understand, Saddam, you are very good at– the more of the copy side of it. And Lailama of course, the photography. So, let’s start with the photography side. What is the top two things that really make the biggest difference in affecting your sales that people can do? What should they be asking for when they go to professional photographers?

Lailama: I think one of the main things is– and it was design plan that’s really important. You need your– you need to have about six to seven depending on whether you want a video or not, uh, you need to see if– research the product. You need to have good product research. So, that way you can determine how the split between the photos is going to be. Let’s say it’s more of a techie product. You want to give more information on it. So I think good image design plan is really important. And then yes, you can take pictures from your iPhone, but there’s so much competition out there. I would recommend using a good camera and lens. So the picture quality would be the second part of it.

Bradley Sutton: Okay, cool. Now on the flip side, what are the– let’s just say, let’s call it the two biggest mistakes that you see people have done. I’m sure a lot of people who come to you, they probably already have listings and they’re just kind of maybe either failing or they’re not doing well. They’re like, “Hey, what are we doing wrong? Can you help us?” In your experience, Lailama, what are the two biggest mistakes that people are doing now when it comes to product photography for their Amazon listings?

Lailama: I still see a lot of images– I think the main image is really important because that’s where you get all your clicks from. And a lot of the times the main image is either not as zoomed in, we recommend zooming it in by 85%. So every time people are scrolling from their phones, they can see as much of the product as possible. And it has to be posed in a way that it looks really attractive in order to get as many clicks as possible. So that’s one of the biggest mistakes, the main image. And secondly, they’re just going to put it with irrelevant props so it doesn’t really tell much of a story. I think having relevant props, whether that’s models, or just staging it with the right products around it is really important to tell your brand story, to tell the product category story.

Bradley Sutton: Okay. Very good. Now, let’s flip to more of the copy side. Title, bullet points, description. Saddam, what are the two top things that for you are so vital for people to be implementing in their listing optimization process?

Saddam: Right. For any content, well, we have to fundamentally understand is people make decisions based on the images. If you look at a product listing, it’s pretty much Amazon’s listing is designed just like a newspaper. So there’s above the fold and there’s below the fold. So traditionally if you look at a newspaper, people get hooked from above the fold material, and then they make a decision based on below the fold, which is basically if you’re brand registered, you get April’s content. So a lot of visual component is a customer’s in order to make a decision, whereas the content side is more for indexing and visibility and exposure of the listing. So when it comes to content, it’s mostly research-based. You have to look at the top listings and see which ones are doing the right way. And then inculcate their strategies for the content, to your own listings. That’s pretty much it.

Bradley Sutton: I like, I like it. Now what on the flip side, what about the two biggest mistakes that you see sellers making right now with their copy on the listing optimization process?

Saddam: Right. I think– I’m a big fan of having a stuffed title, but at the same time the title has to be well organized. There are studies that suggest that people, when they search for a keyword and they see it in the title, the click through rate for those products tend to be up because people like clicking on what they’ve searched for. So if your title is not organized, your click through rate is going to suffer. Secondly, the product features, yes, a lot of it is keyword stuffing and it has to be cured rich for it to be indexed, but at the same time it has to have a low to it. It needs to be talking about the features, how they can use it, where they can use it, what is the customer service component of it, and that’s how you get on the product. So in order to ramp up your conversion, the features have to be well organized within the bullet points. And that’s what I see a lot of people not doing.

Bradley Sutton: Okay, excellent. Lailama, going back to the images, obviously there’s a lot of different kinds of images out there. There’s the main image, which has to have the white background, but a lot of people understand that. But then we start talking about the other images and that’s where people start having doubts about which direction they should go. So, when you get a new project or a new client comes on, let’s talk first about infographic. Do you always use an infographic no matter what kind of product it is, is my first question. And then, my second question would be how do you start to storyboard what your plan of attack, or how do you plan what kind of infographic the product is going to need?

Lailama: Right. So, first there’s white background images, infographics and lifestyle. Lifestyle is basically just, I’m just going to talk about that just to give a whole background on what it all includes. So lifestyle will just be like a person envisioning themselves using that product. So that’s what lifestyle is. Now that could be for example, if it’s a beauty product, you want to use a model for that. Because if I put it among other products, it’s not going to stand out. Right? But let’s say if it’s– let’s say a diffuser, I want to stage it with essential oils, maybe. So that’s the lifestyle aspect of it. And there’s white background, obviously used for the main image. Now, infographics in my opinion can be broken down into many different types. That could include how to use, so again, an instructional picture on how to use that is mostly used for technology, like techie products for example. And then there’s dimensions. I think that’s an important one. Because it’s an online store, you need to give the customer and experience of a brick and mortar store. So you want to give them the dimensions, how the texture of the product is– that’s an image you can utilize for giving them that idea, right? So, infographics is definitely a must because it gives information to the customer. Depending on the product, I’ll do my research and how complicated it is. Then depends on what kind of an infographic image I’m going to go for. If it’s a straightforward product, then maybe it won’t have as many infographics. They’ll have more lifestyle images. But if it needs a lot of explaining to do, then I will have another infographic explaining the features of it or different qualities of it and yeah, so on and so forth.

Bradley Sutton: And then what about– what is something that somebody wouldn’t want to do for infographic? Something that’s against Amazon terms of service. Is there anything that people should beware of? Maybe making claims or putting like any promotional, can you talk a little bit about that?

Lailama: Yeah, claims is an important one. I see a lot of listing sale having a lot of claims, giving guarantees for certain things that it isn’t guaranteed to do. Right? So that’s a big no, no, you wouldn’t want to put a claim that the product can’t fulfill that’s against the policies of Amazon. And uh, yes, of course you want to keep the images decent looking. Something that anyone– people of any age can click on.

Saddam: Well, one thing I meant to add to that is there’s– Amazon does not have a list of keywords or words or claims that you can’t make. But what it does have is a list of prohibited products. And that is a very good gauge of understanding what claims to not make on your listing. Let’s say if I’m sending supplemental– supplements or pill, as an example, Keto pills. We can’t talk about or claim on the images or even in the copy that it’s going to help you lose weight or burn fat– all of those things. It’s almost a very tactful thing to do and you have to be very careful in the messaging that you’re giving to the customers because if there’s any gray area or suspicion, Amazon will block your listing and suspend it.

Bradley Sutton: Yeah, absolutely. And now, sticking with you for a second, Saddam. What about titles? Obviously, we all know titles is the most important part of the listing, probably both from just the customer standpoint but also from the Amazon algorithm standpoint. So when you get a new client or you’re working on a new listing, what’s your process as far as how you decide how long the title is going to be, what keywords you’re going to put in there, et cetera. Walk us through some kind of high level things that you go through.

Saddam: Right. So, I focus more on the analytics before I jump in on any of the niches. My first technique is for those of you who are brand registered, there’s brand analytics. So whenever you search a keyword, it gives you the top three listings for that keyword. Now there’s click share and then there’s conversion share. Click share basically is out of all the clicks for that keyword, how many clicks is one particular product getting. Conversion share, same thing out of all the conversions, what is the percentage of conversion that they’re getting. Now, for those of you who are seasoned sellers, you guys know that the best metric for any listing is a unit session percentage. The way to kind of track a unit session percentage for other products out in the market is if their conversion share is greater than their click share, that means they have a strong and healthy unit session percentage. What I like doing is I look at those products and I see exactly what they’ve done. I kind of reverse engineer.

Bradley Sutton: So in other words, if you’re looking at the brand analytics and they get, let’s just say 15% of the clicks, but as far as the conversions, they’re getting 40% of the conversions, then it’s showing that there are stronger product for that keyword.

Saddam: Exactly. And then the other tip or the other technique that I use is I live and breathe by Cerebro. I use it for quite a lot of things. You can use it for product research too. But in terms of getting the listings, what I do is I would look at the top three, five listings, three to five listings for any keyword, and then I’ll run Cerebro on it. For the ones that have a lot of Amazon choice badges or bestseller badges, I look at those listings in specific because they must be doing something right in order to get badges for those keywords.

Bradley Sutton: Okay. Excellent. Let’s go back to Lailama now. What’s your strategy for when you have a customer who has brand registry and now they want to do the A++, or if I believe formerly known as EBC listings, do you always recommend taking advantage of the ability to put a video in the images section?

Lailama: It also depends on the client’s preference, but, I think a video is really important because it can clearly explain what the product is used for, or maybe you can highlight some of its features via the video. But other than that, just a strategy I really like is you want to explain to the audience an A to Z image of your product. So I would start off with the product specifications, and move on to, for example, it’s weights, its dimension, and so on and so forth. Explaining what it’s used for and then maybe move on to the product category explanation why one should even go for this specific category, and then at the end put in your branding elements, whether that’s logos or telling your brand story. So, that’s just one of the strategies I like using for EBC or A++ content.

Bradley Sutton: In the video, how do you determine what kind of video? Let’s say you do decide, Hey yeah, we definitely want the last one to be a video. With all the different kinds of videos out there, for example, it could be one that looks like an unboxing or just shows their hand, or it could be one that you’re trying to show how to install it or how to assemble it. Or it could be kind of almost a one minute QVC style, one where you have a host in it and they talk about it. How do you decide what style of video works for that product?

Lailama: I think that QVC is fine, but it’s definitely not the best among all the different kinds of videos. I would– let’s say it’s a neck pillow for example, and you want to show an instructional aspect of it. So you’re showing them how to install it, but then at the same time you also want to use it and showcase to the audience how it’s bringing ease to your customer, whoever buys it. So it really depends. If it’s, you either want to showcase the features, but yeah, it just really depends on the product. If it’s not that complicated, then you may want to stay away from doing an instructional kind of a video.

Bradley Sutton: Okay. Let’s go over to Saddam now. Like, let’s talk about bullet points a little bit. We talked about the title, but there’s a lot of its strategy out there for bullet points, something that I’ve always talked about in the first ones, you also want to sometimes try and make an emotional connection with your buyer. It’s not just about keyword stuffing, but what about just length of bullet points overall? How do you determine, Hey, are we going to put a hundred characters per line? Are we going to put 200? Are we going to go more? Do I put bold the first letters? Do I put emojis? Talk us through what you feel are the hot topics about bullet points, listing optimization strategy.

Saddam: Right. So we obviously do the traditional approach where the header of the bullet point is bold and it’s all caps. And then after that, we have let’s say 200, 300 characters for a whole bullet point. We don’t do a lot of emojis just because it is non-compliant and it tends to grab attention, but at the same time also jeopardized your listing in the long run. But what we can do is, like you said, spark that emotional connection in the first bullet point where instead of just being talking about the features of the products, we talk what is different. So let’s supposed a lot of grants nowadays are tying in their products into the social element of it. So let’s say if they’re donating 10% to a foundation, that’s something we would call out in our images, the content as well. Or if it’s a product where we’re talking about there’s not a lot of awareness, that’s where we give them extra tips on it. So it’s not just about what this product is, but it’s also tips on how to use the product effectively. Sometimes they don’t even know when we can highlight that in the first bullet point. It grabs the attention. It’s just like a blog, right? So if you read the first line or two, and if it grabs your attention, you’re going to end up reading the whole thing.

Bradley Sutton: I’ve heard a lot of conflicting stories through the times about the meta information on images. So do you guys even care what is in the metadata of the images? As if it gets indexed or not? Or is that kind of an urban legend that that you can get some special indexing by hiding some things in that information?

Saddam: No, a lot of these practices are stemming from Google. So metadata on images, canonical URLs, all of these things in theory they should work, but no one’s really done a comprehensive case study to support that. There’s a lot of people who claim that these work, we’ve done that in the past, but again, we haven’t tracked because it’s hard to split test something like that. And, for that you need one big storefront, which has one category, probably a hundred SKUs, and you can split this on pretty much all the products and track it for maybe a month or two. So if someone’s down to that case study with me, I’m down as well. But as far as whether we’ve seen success with it, we’ve done it, but there’s no successful story that I can share with you.

Bradley Sutton: Okay, cool. Now we’re going to get into each of your, what we call 30-second tips and your best strategy for our listeners out there. But before we do that, we’re going to play the search volume game, right? So I know both of you guys use Helium 10 religiously, so do not have Helium 10 open right now. Don’t be a cheater. I’m going to give you guys four keywords, and I’m going to give you four search volumes. Usually I only do three, but since you’re two people, you’re a tag team duo here. I’m going to give you an extra one, so you’re basically going to try and match the search volume to the keyword. All right, so I’m going to give you the four keywords, and this is just from the longest keyword to the shortest keyword. And the four keywords are: magnetic spice rack or refrigerator. Next one is, a spice rack organizer for cabinet. Next one is, spice rack organizer, and the shortest keyword there is spice storage. Now the four search volumes, the estimated monthly search volumes. I’m going to go from least to most, the one that is searched for the least has about 2000 searches a month. 1,900 about, the next one is about 2,500. The next one doubles more than doubles up to 6,000 searches a month. And the one that is searched for the most of these four keywords is 44,000. Which one goes to which search point?

Saddam: So, Lailama, I think a magnetic spice rack for refrigerators, would it be for you– would be the most, right?

Lailama: Yeah. I think that too.

Saddam: What was the shortest, Bradley?

Bradley Sutton: Spice storage. As far as number of letters is spice storage, spice rack organizers, spice rack organizer for cabinet, and magnetic spice rack for refrigerator.

Saddam: Okay. I think spice storage would be the lowest because I don’t see anyone. I think less people will search for that. Yeah. So spice storage is our lowest. Magnetic spice rack for refrigerator is probably the highest. Lailama, you’re on the same page as me, right?

Lailama: Yeah. And then cabinet would probably be 4,000. The spice rack organizer cabinet.

Bradley Sutton: You got one right out of four. So this is going to be a surprise to you. The number one, at 44,000 is spice rack organizer for cabinet. 44,000 searches. All right, number two, I think this is the one you guys got right, A spice rack organizer is 6,000 about. Number three with 2,400 is spice storage, and the lowest one is magnetic spice rack for refrigerator. So I guess that’s good that you got– that was what you I believe you sold. I mean as Lailama was talking about that, I was searching for it online and that was why I was coming up with right now. But it just goes– so maybe it’s good that you guys got out of that business because your magnetic one now is the least searched out of everything. But again, my point in doing this, which I’m sure you guys can attest to is, I love to illustrate the importance of everybody to use the tools like Helium 10, to do the research because what we might personally think is the most search thing or the kind of keywords that we would search for is not necessarily what the majority of customers do. So always do the research and rely on the data instead of our own preferences. Otherwise we would have gone all in Lailama and Saddam again on magnetic spice racks and they would have been left with a lot of inventory I think. Alright, now we got to the part of the show that we called the TST, or the TST Thirty Second Tip. There’s two of you. So each of you can give one. Basically this is a– you guys have been giving us a lot of strategies throughout this episode about photography and about listing optimization, but this is something that you can give in 30 seconds or less that you feel is somewhat unique.

Saddam: I call this the aura of the product. Basically down to the core of humans are wired the same, right? So we look for three social cues that are important to whether we look at gravitating towards a particular person or a product. The first one is the main image, so it has to be aesthetically pleasing and that’s how it grabs our attention first. The second social cue is the badges. So any product with an Amazon’s choice or best seller badge is what we will be more inclined to click on. And then the third social cue, it’s basically the social proof. What are– how many people are talking about it and what are they talking about? So that’s the reviews and the ratings.

Bradley Sutton: So Lailama, what is your 30-second tip for our audience?

Lailama: My tip would be to learn from the pros, whether that’s your competitors, big companies, try to analyze their marketing strategies, their pictures and learn from it and see what you’re lacking in your images, and compare and contrast. And that’s a good way to learn about what a good image looks like and what a bad image looks like.

Bradley Sutton: Very good. Yeah, don’t you rely on your own knowledge of what you think looks good. Look what’s working for the competitors who are already crushing on Amazon. I like that. All right guys, thank you so much for joining us. Now, if people want to reach out to either of you to ask more questions about listing optimization, about photography, about anything Amazon related, how can they find your services out there on the interwebs?

Lailama: They can go on our website which is www.amzonestep.com, or they can reach us on our socials, YouTube, Instagram and Facebook. It’s AMZ One step.

Bradley Sutton: All right, well, thank you guys so much for joining us. I was afraid having brothers and sisters are going to be some fighting on here, but even through the search volume game, you guys were on the same page. So, even though it was the wrong page, you’re on the same page. It shows you that siblings can be in business together and be successful. So thank you guys for showing us that and for joining us. And we’ll definitely love to reach out to you maybe next year to see where your business has come since then.

Saddam: Hey, thanks for having us.

Lailama: Thank you for having us.

Bradley Sutton: All right, we’ll see you later. Quick note, guys, don’t forget that regardless where you’re listening to this podcast, whether it’s on your iPhone or on Stitcher, on Spotify, that you hit the subscribe button so you can be notified every time we drop a new episode.